Fucking Enders Game

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ubernoob
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Fucking Enders Game

Post by ubernoob »

Disclaimer: This is literally the book that got me excited about reading as a child.

So, people on my facebook feed are complaining about how the movie was not true to the book, etc etc. My response is basically "no shit sherlock." I ended up posting a gigantic comment in one of the discussions:
At age 5 Ender brutally murders another five year old. Not because he's starving to death. Not because he's in danger for his life. He does it to win.

Show me a single movie where the opening scene is a five year old brutally murdering another five year old as the first god damn scene. He then goes home and shows Peter the blood on his shoe. He OWNS his violence. As a five year old.

At age six, Ender beats the Giant by being more creatively murderous than any child to have played the game.

At age nine, Ender brutally murders another child by going directly for the brain. He does not attempt to incapacitate Bonzo, he straight up goes for the killing blow as his first action.

At age 11 Ender commits genocide. Now, Bean was fully aware that they were commanding troops. Ender was not. Bean suggests to kill Achilles at age three or four. Bean strands him in a ventilation shaft some time during battle school and casually threatens to kill him a couple more times.

All the events in these books happen to children that are in the same age range as you would see at an elementary school. And they brutally fucking murder each other at every turn.

Yes, Kick Ass portrays child violence. It is also in the comic book genre. They don't kill named characters (except for the occasional villain where the audience justifies it as "different" from other murder). They also make a big deal about how her childhood is robbed of her. Lord of the Flies is fucking dark as shit. You don't give that book to your kids to read. You wait til they are teenagers at least.

The books are very much as dark as lord of the flies. How well did Lord of the Flies do in the box office, and how many things did they whitewash from the books? Did they actually show one child bashing another child's brains out? Because that's what happens in Enders Game. He bashes other childrens brains out with his bare hands.

The ages of the protagonists in Enders Game are not "Young Adults." They are children. Of course they have to white wash things to get it through the censors! It's brutal child murder porn! I'm not joking. Two naked boys (one aged around 12, the other around 9) in a shower trying to cause traumatic brain injury to each other. I'm not joking. Bonzo explicitly spells out that his goal is to cause brain damage. Ender kills him by going directly for the brain to cause a lethal TBI.

The main characters are MURDERERS. That is the actual events that take place in the story. Yes, we have lot of violence in the media. Most of it is not child on child murder.
Now, I haven't read the book in a few years, but to my recollection that's basically what happens in the book. There are other events, but that's the core of what they have to change just to get the movie through the censors.

Where am I right, wrong, missing the discussion entirely? I knew an Enders Game movie was in the works for years, but my assumption was that the major problem with actually making it was the above points. What else am I missing?

Also, is it any good?
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Re: Fucking Enders Game

Post by Kaelik »

ubernoob wrote:Where am I right, wrong, missing the discussion entirely? I knew an Enders Game movie was in the works for years, but my assumption was that the major problem with actually making it was the above points. What else am I missing?
The part where everyone accepts that and no one cares and the movie still doesn't match the books.

Seriously think about when you read the books, what was your favorite part? If you answered "That thing where Ender proves he is a genius by training the misfits of Dragon Army into being the best army, and then winning all the battle rooms" congratulations, you can watch literally 100% of Dragon Army winning in 10 minutes. 99% of their wins occur with you seeing nothing but Harrison Fords face and absolutely no idea what the fuck is going on.

The simplification necessary to get a story that is fundamentally about what goes on in the head of one person into a movie that doesn't constantly monologue at you is so much that the movie is literally about as in depth as a ten minute explanation given by someone describing the book.

No one cares that they don't show brutal violence, people care that a book about one person's inner workings was turned into a movie that skims over the events that happened on the outside without ever touching the inner workings of Ender.

Is the movie good? No. Why would it be. The book only works because of how long, fervent, and detailed the jacking off to Ender's genius is. You can't do that in a movie. The End.
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Re: Fucking Enders Game

Post by ubernoob »

Kaelik wrote:Is the movie good? No. Why would it be. The book only works because of how long, fervent, and detailed the jacking off to Ender's genius is. You can't do that in a movie. The End.
And into my sig you go. Thanks. That really sums up the core problem.
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Post by Ancient History »

The core problem is that this is an Orson Scott Card novel back before his batshit insanity hit "openly offensive" levels, and anyone old enough to have fallen in love with the book is probably outside the target audience for the movie.
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Re: Fucking Enders Game

Post by Mask_De_H »

Kaelik wrote: Is the book good? No. Why would it be. The book only exists because of how long, fervent, and detailed the jacking off to Ender's genius is. You can't do that in a movie. The End.
Yeah, Ender's Game is fucking horrible for all the reasons in this thread and more. Whitewashing the movie takes the story from "offensively shit" to "shit".

Also, welcome back, uber. Where you been?
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Re: Fucking Enders Game

Post by Kaelik »

Mask_De_H wrote:
Kaelik wrote: Is the book good? No. Why would it be. The book only exists because of how long, fervent, and detailed the jacking off to Ender's genius is. You can't do that in a movie. The End.
Yeah, Ender's Game is fucking horrible for all the reasons in this thread and more. Whitewashing the movie takes the story from "offensively shit" to "shit".

Also, welcome back, uber. Where you been?
Mask, if you are going to misquote me to something completely different, make it clear that is what you are doing.
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Post by Chamomile »

Ender's Game was fun for the same reason a Let's Play of a strategy game like Total War or Galactic Civilizations is fun. Our protagonist is faced with a series of strategic problems and finds clever solutions to them. The movie didn't give itself enough time to set up what those problems actually were, and thus was basically just about a kid making friends while doing laser tag, then playing an RTS and accidentally murdering a bazillion aliens, for whom he has significant empathy. Empathy which, despite the movie's dialogue stating otherwise, does not help him defeat the aliens at all.
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Re: Fucking Enders Game

Post by ubernoob »

Mask_De_H wrote:
Kaelik wrote: Is the book good? No. Why would it be. The book only exists because of how long, fervent, and detailed the jacking off to Ender's genius is. You can't do that in a movie. The End.
Yeah, Ender's Game is fucking horrible for all the reasons in this thread and more. Whitewashing the movie takes the story from "offensively shit" to "shit".

Also, welcome back, uber. Where you been?
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Post by Prak »

Ancient History wrote:The core problem is that this is an Orson Scott Card novel back before his batshit insanity hit "openly offensive" levels, and anyone old enough to have fallen in love with the book is probably outside the target audience for the movie.
I think it also suffers what I call the Goonies Effect: A lot of people really, really love the Goonies, even though it's a really fucking terrible and, at times, offensive, movie because they saw it when they were really little kids and so it's nostalgic. They don't actually like anything integral to the movie, they like the memories they associate with the movie.

People don't necessarily like anything integral to Ender's Game (although the long narrative of child on child murder does sound awesome), they like the memories from the time in their life that they read it.
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Post by Shrapnel »

I hated Ender's Game when I read it. HATED. And I read it at the age that Prak is mentioning.

We had to read it in English class one time, and I really hated it (did I mention that?) Ender was SOOOO AWESOME! and there was all this homosexual overtones with that other Mary Sue kid that he fell in love with in Space Training(TM) and then the most climactic battle in the book took place not at the battle, but with Ender really far away from the action telling everyone what to do, and his best friends died but this was only mentioned offhand and who cares because Ender is SOOO AWESOME! and then for some reason all the bugs are dead because they killed themselves or something.

I set the book on fire in class to show my solidarity regarding how terrible it was. I got an F- and detention, but I was commended by my teacher for managing to obtain the necessary materials to burn a book in school.
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Post by erik »

I rewatched The Goonies a couple years ago and was astounded at how much I hated it. I had nearly put it on my Amazon Wishlist before that. Damn you nostalgia.
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Post by Prak »

My youthful Kids Have An Adventure movie was Monster Squad, I never saw Goonies as a kid. I did torrent it a while ago to see what all my peers were cumming themselves dry over, and that was my summation. I didn't like it because I wasn't a kid. I don't think I'd have liked it when I was a kid either, because of their treatment of... the fat kid, can't remember his name. I also don't like the... oh fuck, what's his name, in the Superman shirt, the "retard," because people do enough by choice that's stupid and harmful and valid to make fun of that we don't need to make fun of people for things they can't control, or which don't harm anyone*.


*this is why I absolutely hate the treatment of Miley Cyrus right now. Whether you agree with her shenanigans or not, it's not hurting anyone, and I take a dim view on making fun of people for how they look.
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You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by Shrapnel »

I dislike Miley Cyrus for her music. Is that okay?
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Post by Prak »

Shrapnel wrote:I dislike Miley Cyrus for her music. Is that okay?
That's perfectly fine as long as it's sane levels of dislike and not "OMG THIS MUSIC IS TERRIBLE I MUST CALL HER A SLUT AND SEETHE OVER THIS!!!!!!"

aka- what a lot of people do to female musicians, and also kind of did to Bieber before it became apparent what a little shithead he actually was.
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FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Post by JonSetanta »

So who read the Ender series beyond the first book?

Anyone remember that planet full of OCD Asians or the disembodied supergenius AI? What the hell was with that?
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Post by John Magnum »

The sequels are fucking amazing, they truly bring Ender's Glory Thru Suffering to dizzying new heights.
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Post by rampaging-poet »

I read the sequels, but only for the sake of completion. I probably would have enjoyed the second book more if I hadn't read the introduction. I didn't like the third and fourth books at all. I especially hated the "souls are the fundamental particle!" fictional physics. Ender was whiny and I honestly can't remember anything he did except like one thing in the last book.
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Post by AndreiChekov »

I didn't like any of the books except Ender's Game, and Ender's Shadow.
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Post by Parthenon »

The other books were pretty much shite. Ender's Shadow wasn't bad, but by the end I was reading them for the sake of completeness.

Maybe I was too young to understand it, but I honestly had no idea why Ender got married. From what I recall they shared no interests, weren't attracted to each other or had any real reason to form a relationship.

Dammit, now I'm going to have to look at the wiki to see if that explains it at all.

EDIT:
The wiki has no explanation. The sum total describing and explaining the marriage is:
and Ender marries Novinha.
Last edited by Parthenon on Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by John Magnum »

Remember: Ender's sole purpose is to suffer excruciting agony, so we can appreciate his messianic genius all the more. Therefore, he seeks out and marries the most miserable woman in the galaxy so she can dump her misery onto him and he can be a saint.
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Post by Longes »

I only remember thinking how silly Orson Card was, for thinking that Internet would be a civil forum with rational people in it, instead of cat videos and porn.
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Post by Username17 »

Longes wrote:I only remember thinking how silly Orson Card was, for thinking that Internet would be a civil forum with rational people in it, instead of cat videos and porn.
The irony of course being that Card himself is now one of the internet's bottom feeding basement dwellers, circulating conspiracy theories about homosexual Kenyans from the government are going to take your guns and impose communism and fascism at the same time. He's literally become an internet tough guy, and is one of the leading sources of shittiness in the webosphere.

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Last edited by Username17 on Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Blicero »

Ender's Shadow and its sequels are kind of fun. They're decent political thriller stories, and they manage to make Peter be a reasonably compelling antihero. The sequels to Ender's Game don't really have a reason to exist, though.
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Post by hyzmarca »

Parthenon wrote:The other books were pretty much shite. Ender's Shadow wasn't bad, but by the end I was reading them for the sake of completeness.

Maybe I was too young to understand it, but I honestly had no idea why Ender got married. From what I recall they shared no interests, weren't attracted to each other or had any real reason to form a relationship.

Dammit, now I'm going to have to look at the wiki to see if that explains it at all.

EDIT:
The wiki has no explanation. The sum total describing and explaining the marriage is:
and Ender marries Novinha.
Yeah. Seriously. That makes absolutely no sense. There's really zero words dedicated to developing their relationship. They're just a guy and a girl who happen to be on the same planet. It could have been anyone.

Fuck. It would have made more sense, given the nature of their relationship and the number of words spent on it, for Ender to marry Valentine.


But that's one of OSC's problems. People meet, instantly fall in love, and get married for absolutely no reason.

I mean, if I was Ender I'd certainly be trying to get into Val's pants before Novinha's
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Post by Username17 »

That's actually a central tenet of Mormonism, OSC's faith. People are supposed to get married because they are magically and instantaneously meant to be together, not because they have any pesky "relationship" shit going on. In the Twilight saga, Jacob falls instantly in love with a newborn baby, because whether you were meant to be together has nothing at all to do with whether it's creepy as hell.

Mormon love is so fucking weird that when Mormons write about love in fiction, it just looks like a plot hole to everyone else.

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